Interview with Jo Getzinger of CARE, INC. Part 1: For Those Helping Survivors

Jo Getzinger, MSW is the President of CARE, Inc., a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping survivors of ritual abuse, complex trauma and human trafficking, and to helping educate those who support survivors.  She has more than 30 years of experience in working with complex trauma and graciously granted an interview.

svali: Jo, could you share some initial thoughts on healing?

Jo: When society typically thinks of healing, they look at things like functionality. Some survivors have had a hard time functioning in life, or managing a job; and initially, they will work on these issues. But I can think of many individuals who have worked on these issues, and are able to hold a job, but aren’t very healed, because what can occur is pseudo-maturity: they look functional, but the problems aren’t resolved and show up in their intimate and family relationships.

In order for there to be healing, there needs to be good intact relationships for the survivor. When an individual is able to maintain good relationships, and maintain a coherent identity, that’s what we consider a healed survivor.  Many individuals have had much better success at this over time as we have focused on the relational and belonging needs of survivors.

svali: What are some things you think might be helpful for therapists and those who are new to working with survivors?

Jo: First, I would like to address the question regarding how long the healing journey takes, since this is asked so frequently. It can take years for someone with complex trauma, particularly ritual abuse, to heal.  These individuals often have abuse backgrounds that involve family dysfunction and outside perpetrators as well, with a childhood history of a great amount of abuse, characterized by broken relationships. It takes a while to actually heal from this amount of trauma, because the answer is that healing actually occurs through relationship. Because it takes time for the survivor to build trust, healing won’t be a “quick fix”.  It can’t just be goal oriented with tasks assigned; helping involves a relational healing journey between the therapist and the individual.

svali: What I hear you saying is that when working with survivors, be prepared for the journey, and not just a few quick sessions or a couple of prayers?

Jo: Yes.  I think it’s important that the helper is able to look at their own wounds; everyone is wounded from some trauma in their life at some point.  It’s important that therapists have a good handle on their own issues, and that they are healed to the extent they are able to “go the distance” with the survivor. Survivors have wounded backgrounds, and all types of problems will surface over the course of the healing journey. When working with someone who is so wounded, anything in your own life that needs attention and to be worked on will be pointed out by survivors.  For instance, if you struggle with shame yourself and you are working with someone who struggles with shame, or any of the other difficult emotions, the survivor will find that emotion and bring it up in you, often through testing the relationship. If you don’t know how to handle emotions in a healthy way for yourself, it’s going to be difficult to help them resolve those feelings.

svali: Sometimes, supporters raise the question of not being a trained person, and the concern that they might do harm due to not knowing what to do?

Jo:  That’s why I believe it’s important that the group of supporters that develops around the survivor works with the therapist, who must take the time to train the support system. Creating a support team was one of the single most helpful things that we began to do here at CARE. In the past when I tried to do this type of work with only one hour a week in an office setting, it simply wasn’t enough.  The hourly session was kind of a contrived relationship, not something that helped the survivor live in a practical way outside the office so they could actually experience safety, or the modeling of good relationships. In the traditional office model, it was impossible for them to develop a give and receive relationship in a way that modeled healthy and safe attachments.

svali: It sounds like you are describing the fact that not only survivors need support and teaching in the therapeutic relationship, but supporters , or the support team also need help learning what’s helpful and what’s not helpful.

Jo: that’s right. Because if helpers don’t have any training, as they try to help, they are going to be tested in the relationship. Typically, helpers aren’t used to being tested or dealing with the fear that is introduced into the relationship by the survivor. If you think about it, a survivor has often lived with a lot of hurt and betrayal, abuse and pain, where nothing is ever safe; that’s all they have experienced in life. Suddenly someone comes along and says “I want you to trust me, and I’m going to love you,” and survivors can’t receive from the helper, because they’ve only experienced pain in relationships, and they’re fearful. They will have to test the supporter. Testing is a process of making a relationship. The motivation behind the testing are concerns like these:  “If I don’t do things perfectly, or if I blow it, or if I show fear, or anger, will you still care for me?”  Survivors will try to push the supporter away because of thoughts like this: “I’m afraid that if I let you get close to me, you’ll do something to hurt me, or drop me.” It‘s a normal process of push away and pull close, until that person learns that the other is going to remain consisten and constant through the testing process.

svali: What has personally helped you in your over 30 years of helping survivors?

Jo:  I would say my faith is the most important, because that’s what’s kept me going during the times when it felt like nothing was going well; when I got tested and when I got the push/pull from survivors. It was especially difficult when it felt like there wasn’t a lot of support from others. As my own healing and maturity issues came up in my face,  it’s really the faith I had and the LORD’s encouragement to keep going, and that He was working out things in me that helped most. After 30 years I can look back and say that I gained a lot personally from the work, with a lot of refining and burning off the “dross” in me. This is true for anyone who continues in this important work. It’s a matter of being willing to persevere and trust that no matter what happens, God is going to work it out for good; that He will do this in me, and in the survivor.

svali:  I’ve heard some supporters and churches mention their fear of warfare (spiritual attack) when they work with survivors.  Anything you found helpful?

Jo:  Well, from my own experience I have encountered warfare when working with survivors. This is an issue because there are spiritual strongholds that the survivor will bring with them because of the type of abuse they’ve been in, and part of healing is working out these issues. When I encountered this, what I found is that God had to get bigger in my life. The bigger He became, the less fearful I became of any warfare that would come at me.  The scripture that has really guided me in this process is that “suffering produces perseverance, perseverance produces  good character,  and character produces hope, and hope does not disappoint,” and I have really experienced that as true. God really does take everything evil and turns it around for good, so we don’t have to fear; and even when I don’t know why warfare is occurring or what might be the result of this warfare, I trust that He will bring the breakthrough and He always does.

svali: What are the characteristics of a good prayer minister or therapist in the context of working with ritual abuse/mind control survivors?

Jo: I think the characteristic of a good therapist or prayer minister is someone who is able to love; again, the Christian principle that “love never fails.”  You can be intelligent, or skilled, but if you don’t have love, you are basically a clanging cymbal (1 Cor. 13).  I think the most important thing is that the person you are working with senses that you do deeply care about them.  Even if you’re a brand new therapist, and you don’t know very much, “Love covers a multitude of sins”.  If the person knows that you care about them, they will understand that the therapist can make mistakes, and if you’re willing to be humble and apologize, and listen to that person, then they will understand that you are doing your best; especially if you remain teachable.

svali: Wait, you’re saying teachable, that the therapist can learn from the survivor? That’s a shift from the normal therapeutic paradigm.

Jo:  If you can remain humble and teachable, and a good listener, you will be able to hear what the person needs. I think that faith is important, too. If the survivor sees that you have a strong faith, they will be attracted to who your God is, because your faith will be tested in this relationship. If your God is big, they will see that, and that is what they need to have hope for themselves.

It can’t just be the therapist that brings strength and support to the survivor; it has to be the One they are introduced to by the therapist. You become a bridge for that client to God, and the client’s relationship with God can be repaired as well. This is especially true if the survivor’s background is ritual  ritual abuse: ritual abuse targets the survivor’s relationship with God, and often severely damages it.  Who they believe God is, because of the distortions created through the abuse, and who God really is, is an important thing to help the survivor examine.  The survivor can begin to repair their experience of God by the example of a good and true Christian life modeled by the helper.

Often, one of the basic questions asked by a survivor of ritual abuse is “Where was God when these things happened to me?”  This is one of the foundational problems created by the abuse: the idea that God didn’t care, or that He wasn’t powerful enough to help the survivor. If the helper can model faith while they’re relationally tested and can be patient and compassionate as the survivor experiences emotions such as hopelessness; and if  the helper can remain strong and trusting in God no matter what things look like, then the survivor can begin to see that there is something more, that might have been missed, about who God is. Survivors can begin to see that God can come through for them, too. Since the helper isn’t giving up on the survivor, maybe God hasn’t given up either.

svali: can you share more about what a healthy relationship with a therapist or supporter would look like?

Jo: It is someone who deeply cares about the survivor and puts the survivor’s needs first. The helper must maintain the ability to manage their own needs and set consistent, healthy boundaries. Survivor’s bonding experiences in the past came from abusive relationships, it’s a trauma bond, and the perpetrator makes it all about what they need; and all bonds that are formed are through manipulation. Trauma bonds do involve love, but most often the perpetrators  themselves are not free to demonstrate any kind of real love without manipulation and abuse involved in the bond.

svali; What I am hearing you say is that an important part of a good therapeutic relationship is offering a healthy alternative to a trauma bond to the person.

Jo: yes.  And a healthy bond would involve the client understanding that I am there for them; and that I am there to help them.  I am not interested in a manipulative, self-seeking relationship, but in one that really puts the person’s needs first, takes care of them first. That provides safety for them to actually heal.


Part two of this interview will discuss questions that survivors often ask

Hybrid Labs: Fact or Myth?

Note: the information in this blog post may be triggering to survivors of occultic abuse

Over the years, there have been questions raised and discussions of what have been called “nephilim”, “beautiful ones”, etc., and whether they are real or not. In the Bible, in Genesis, there is mention of “the sons of God” (believed to be angels) having relations with human women, and creating a race of nephilim. The book of Enoch in the Apocrypha also makes some reference to them.  Many believe that the myths of half human/half “god” individuals in ancient mythology describe these beings.

What I will share here is based upon my own memories while in the group of these things.  I realize that these are recovered memories, shared by parts. Some may disbelieve what I share here, while others may be surprised.

The Jesuit order has been involved in trying to create half-demonic/half-human individuals for many years (since the early 1900’s, especially). This attempt is known as the “Hybrid Project” by those in the order, with the express intent of creating “satan’s son” and includes the following elements:

-A large underground facility (located in Czechoslovakia). This facility has numerous altars within in, where sacrifices are done continuously day and night, for the spiritual empowerment of the project.  This facility is equipped with high-tech equipment.

– numerous staff who have strong theta (psychic spiritual) gifts

-birth mothers selected for size, genetics and strength, including strength of will to live.

The latter is extremely important, because carrying a hybrid child is very difficult on the mother. Once impregnated, the birth mother will experience extreme oppression and depression, and over the months, as the fetus grows, the birth mother may literally die from the amount of spiritual oppression in which the mother feels literally consumed from within.  In other cases, the mother will abort the fetus before she herself dies, partway through the pregnancy (this happened to me at age 14, when I was a carrier).

In the earlier days of the project, abortions and birth mother deaths were much more common. Many of the hybrid children born only looked partially human. Over time, the technology was developed, along with enhanced genetics (later generation birth mothers were stronger). Omega teams (individuals with strong omega skills) were also developed, during which a group of spiritually strong individuals would spend time around the clock with the birth mother, and literally “take” for a period of time the oppression for her, which allowed birth mothers to carry fetuses to term, and live.

In recent years, several hybrids have been born that look quite human, and that are the product of a spirit father and human mother during specific rituals. One is an individual that the Jesuits believe is “he who has come” or satan’s son; this individual is currently 18 years old.

The main issue regarding hybrids is that they do not think or act like humans. These beings have incredibly strong spiritual abilities, and are born with a natural desire to kill. They do not have to be “trained to kill” as humans do; instead, they must be taught to NOT kill, through bonding with a human (usually the birth mother, who is normally a very high-ranking spiritual individual).  The birth mothers feed these infants with a combination of milk and blood, obtained by cutting themselves as they nurse the hybrid infant.

These children are incredibly beautiful, although some (but not all) are a bit “odd” in appearance; they may have titanium white hair and violet eyes; or be incredibly strong (they develop coordination and muscle mass much more quickly than full humans). They are able to send very strong demonic attacks (theta skills).  They are exceptionally intelligent, and often take on the characteristics of their “birth spirit” as well as the human mother.

The ultimate plan is that the hybrid children being raised now (must are under age 8) will form the future leadership council of the order.

One of the reasons that I left the order years ago was that I disagreed with this. I saw the terrible things done in these labs, and realized that these creatures do not love human beings, or care about their welfare at all. They actually hate all humans, and require significant bonding and gentling to even be able to appear normal to some degree.  I remember going to a Jesuit monastery in southern Poland years ago (early in the project days) to work with a hybrid toddler that the staff were afraid of. The toddler had gotten out very early one morning, gone into the chicken coop, and killed all the chickens by pulling their heads off. The toddler was sitting there, eating them, when I arrived. This type of horrific scene can occur with these beings.

After experiences like this, I felt that the order was wrong to fund and staff the hybrid labs, and chose to leave in protest.  This was not “improving the world” in any sense; it was senseless to attempt to breed these beings that had a natural cruelty.

I do realize that what I have written here sounds unbelievable – that by writing this, I risk being blown off as a “nut”. I wish with all my heart it wasn’t true. But this is occurring, and I ask that all Christians join in prayer that this type of occultic activity would be stopped.





What to Do If You Can’t Afford a Therapist

One issue that survivors commonly face is related to finances: therapy rates are high, and it can be difficult to afford one.  What can be done if an individual wants to work on healing, and doesn’t have the money to pay for therapy?

Below are some suggestions. Please be aware that they are not meant to permanently replace therapy, but to help during the times when finances are tight.

Art and Collages

Art is a “right brain” experience that can help you and your parts to communicate information that isn’t as easy to verbally process.  Over the years, I have created cartoons and drawings in my journals, as well as collages. This can be a way to express yourself, or to get in touch with memories and feelings.  You will want to save your art or collages to bring to therapy when you can afford it.

Many times, the poems, artwork and collages created will have a deeper meaning to the survivor as time goes on, as parts share what the images really mean.

Support Groups

Some churches and other organizations hold groups for a number of issues ranging from incest and sexual abuse, to addictions. These groups may be led by a therapist, or be a peer-led support group.  You can probably find a group that meets near you by checking online, or asking for referrals from churches, or a social worker in your community.

Groups can be a positive experience, and promote healing (and help you feel less alone). But be cautious when sharing and making friends, since the people that go to group may also be survivors of other traumas, including cult abuse. Get to know people for awhile and use discernment as you choose who to befriend.

Online groups also exist, and can be a positive way to meet others. But again, use caution, since you won’t know how healed individuals in the groups are.


For those who cannot afford therapy any other way, community mental health services may be an option. It can take quite awhile to see a therapist, and the quality of therapist can vary. Most CMH agencies tend to use short-term or brief therapies, but they may also offer trauma groups.

Sliding Scale and Interns

The best therapists are expensive, and often require good insurance in order to afford their services. But some will offer a sliding scale for services based on income, which can help make therapy more affordable.  They may have interns (graduate students in psychology or social work working towards their license) who may not have years of experience, but may be teachable – and more affordable.  During your research, find out if the practice you want to work with offers these options.

Find a Support Person

If you have a close friend, or an individual willing to support your healing journey, ask them to consider “being there” for you while you work on journaling, artwork or work through a workbook on healing. It can be helpful to know that if memories or feelings come up, that someone who cares is nearby.

Read Books

There are some excellent books written on topics related to healing. One of the best for those starting on their healing journey is an older book: “The Courage to Heal” by Ellen Bass. This excellent book has an accompanying workbook, and has excellent ideas on safety planning and coping with memories and feelings.

There are numerous PTSD workbooks that can be bought used on Amazon, as well as other resources. Alison Miller has written an excellent workbook for healing from ritual abuse : Becoming Yourself.

Try looking over other workbooks to see which one seems to address what you want to work on.

Hopefully, at least one of the above ideas will help you through the times when therapy seems beyond your reach financially.